Author Topic: A voice from 1880s Stratford  (Read 3713 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline poppy show

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 339
    • View Profile
A voice from 1880s Stratford
« on: 26 October, 2010, 01:17:37 AM »
Hi everyone,

This is a memory which is over a hundred years old,it was related to me when i was about seven years old, by my neighbour Mrs Brown, to me she was my nan , she must have been about 80 in 1960   she told me about what it was like when she was a child,   one of the things she told me ,what i remember, was that she said when she was a little girl,there used to be cattle roaming freely around stratford broadway,she said that  stratford was quite countrified then .   
 i wonder if there was a cattle market, at stratford ,  or were they just on their way to the city of London.
anyway there s one for the history books
 Barry

Offline ALANF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 712
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #1 on: 26 October, 2010, 09:13:26 AM »
I remember reading an article in one of the London evening newspapers about 1960ish, which consisted of an interview with an old man who lived in Poplar. Talking about his life, he mentioned that he remembered flocks of sheep being driven up Commercial Rd on the way to market. This must have been round about the same date i.e. 1880's.

Alan

Offline Robert Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #2 on: 26 October, 2010, 12:39:11 PM »
Cattle, mainly sheep would be driven down from various parts of East Anglian, and Stratford was a days `Drive` from the City of London. so the cattle would be rested here before the final drive to Smithfield Market.

In the old days before Pubs either had been given posh names or closed, you could follow the route by the Pub names.

In living memeory, there was a Cattle Market at Romford.

Offline jplant1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 258
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #3 on: 26 October, 2010, 03:49:36 PM »
In the Victoria County History we can find

"The present retail markets in West Ham all originated spontaneously in the 19th century. (fn. 4) From 1858 or earlier hucksters were congregating in Stratford Broadway and High Street. (fn. 5) In 1879 the local board and the police removed all the stalls from those streets, but the traders later returned there. About that time there was also a cattle market on the south side of the Broadway, and an annual pleasure fair is said to have been held in the same place. (fn. 6)"

From: 'West Ham: Markets and fairs, marshes and forest', A History of the County of Essex: Volume 6 (1973), pp. 93-96. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=42757  Date accessed: 26 October 2010.

So that would be good supporting evidence for a cattle market in the 1880s.

The footnotes mentioned above refer to West Ham Borough minute books, and also to a 1936 West Ham Jubilee Edition of the Stratford Express.

If you search the VCH website you can find more interesting stuff about a great cattle fair twice yearly on Wanstead Flats and Leyton Marshes, but that is earlier.

Offline lewisjoiner

  • Helpful user
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #4 on: 27 October, 2010, 01:17:02 PM »
Hi All,
I dont know how true this is but cattle had the rite to graze on Wansted Flats, which meant cars very often had to avoide them. It may not be the case now, but I think it was back in the 60s and going back to I dont know when! Anyone out there who can confirm?
Regards, Lewis

Offline MickG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,462
    • View Profile
    • Mick's Muses
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #5 on: 27 October, 2010, 11:04:23 PM »
According to "Wanstead Wildlife", link below, summertime grazing rights still exist on Wanstead Flats. However due to a foot and mouth outbreak, no cattle have been released for grazing since 1996. Apparently, winter grazing rights were bought out from the commoner in 1977 by the Corporation of London following the death of a motorcyclist.

When I was a Post Office telegram boy on a motorbike in the early 1960's, I frequently saw cattle slowly crossing the road sometimes at the fury of other motorists. A fellow telegram boy once had an accident and collided with a cow. He said he thought the cow was going to wait for him to pass-by before crossing the road. I also remember seeing a herd of cows wander down Woodgrange Road one Sunday. In those days most shops were shut on Sundays except a florist opposite the Methodist Church. I saw the irate shopkeeper trying to shoo the cattle away as they took delight in eating his show of flowers outside the shop.

Mick


http://www.wansteadwildlife.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138&Itemid=218

Offline Bert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #6 on: 28 October, 2010, 12:18:05 AM »
There were no cattle on the Flats during the 20 years up to WW2. In fact, it was then, in the evenings, a haven for courting couples to indulge in a little friendly snogging after dark. The risk of cow pats would have been a discouragement to lovers. Around 1937 I sat (!!!) there with my first girlfriend. (I blush at the memory.)

The lake was always an attraction. There were always young and old there with their model sailing and motor boats.

Bert.

Offline jplant1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 258
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #7 on: 28 October, 2010, 10:26:45 AM »
Wikipedia says

"Though historically part of a royal forest, the nature of the area encouraged people to turn out cattle and other animals to graze upon this unenclosed land. This practice was eventually recognised and granted as the right of common pasture. Certain landowners and occupiers still have this right, granted them as part of the Epping Forest Act 1878, and cattle grazed freely until 1996 when the BSE crisis forced their removal. It is probable that continued grazing on this and similar areas of the Forest helped to maintain the open aspect which they have today. Although the campaign to prevent enclosure before 1878 is well known, less well known is the campaign organised by local people to prevent the building of houses for 7000 people on part of Wanstead Flats in 1946/47.[1]"

Offline Robert Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #8 on: 28 October, 2010, 10:46:37 AM »
About 15 years ago a workmates Dad run into a cow which had walked across the road on the `flats`in the late evening. The Cow was killed in the collision. The car was a write-off. The owner of the Cow then tried to claim for the cost of the cow againts my mates Dads insurance, and finally and very sadly his Dad never fully recoverd from the shock and died about a year later.

Offline Phil S

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #9 on: 03 November, 2010, 09:10:38 AM »
Wikipedia says

"Though historically part of a royal forest, the nature of the area encouraged people to turn out cattle and other animals to graze upon this unenclosed land. This practice was eventually recognised and granted as the right of common pasture. Certain landowners and occupiers still have this right, granted them as part of the Epping Forest Act 1878, and cattle grazed freely until 1996 when the BSE crisis forced their removal. It is probable that continued grazing on this and similar areas of the Forest helped to maintain the open aspect which they have today. Although the campaign to prevent enclosure before 1878 is well known, less well known is the campaign organised by local people to prevent the building of houses for 7000 people on part of Wanstead Flats in 1946/47.[1]"

Interesting.  I wondered what happened to the cows that used to wander about the flats.  Where are they now I wonder, who's were they and why have they not returned after the BSE crisis?
Born and brought up in West Ham  -  and still here!

Offline reddevil1311

  • Helpful user
  • **
  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #10 on: 03 November, 2010, 10:05:51 AM »
The Wiki item is incorrect about BSE - it was the foot and mouth outbreak in 96.

I remember the cows on Wanstead Flats quite vividly, and having to wait for them to cross the roads etc

Ashley

Offline carol price

  • Helpful user
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #11 on: 03 November, 2010, 10:40:56 AM »
The site below tells you about the cattle on Wanstead flats .
 There was a survey some time back in the paper produced by Epping Forest regarding the cattle and whether or not people would like to see them back grazing on Wanstead flats . I filled in the survey saying that I would love to see the cattle back on Wanstead flats but now I would worry for their safety .,I think things have changed so much in the last 16 years . Probably they would be classed
 as some sort of free meal , and I doubt if most of the cars that travel up and down centre road would give way to animals . There is not much respect anymore for the wildlife on the flats as seen recently in the case of the poisoning of a dog and numerous amounts of birds  with some sort of industrial
 fluid, they wanted to see "how long it would take them to die", these were Newham council workers .
 They lost their jobs , I dont know if they received any punishment .
 but I would make the punishnent fit the crime.
                            Carol.
 it was B.S.E. not foot and mouth .

http://www.wansteadwildlife.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138&Itemid=

Offline carol price

  • Helpful user
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #12 on: 03 November, 2010, 02:37:48 PM »
Just to add to my last posting .
It was the B.S.E. that stopped the cattle being grazed on Wanstead flats in 1994
 and foot and mouth in 1996 that stopped their return .
                                   Carol.
 

Offline jplant1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 258
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #13 on: 04 November, 2010, 05:20:41 PM »
Getting a bit off topic I know, but here's a cutting about a bull in Upton Park:

The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. : 1860-1954) < Monday 15 November 1937 >


BULLS CREATE STIR I
Several Persons Gored;
Race For Safety
People raced for their lives when two bulls escaped at East Ham and Milton Regis, Sittlngbourne, England.

(Sittingbourne story snipped)
The bull whlch escaped at East Ham was at large for an hour after breaking out of a slaughterer's yard in Plashet Grove. Women and children ran into shops as it raced through Green St., Upton Park - a main road and a number of side streets.

Busmen took off their white coats and waved them in front of the bull in an effort to divert lt. This only served to infuriate it further, however, and it charged at a cyclist who jumped clear and threw his machine at its horns.

The bull dashed into a greengrocer's shop in Green St., Upton Park, knocked over a till and imprisoned a customer and the manager. Mr. J. Clifford, in a back room. Police joined in the chase after the animal, which was cornered in a yard at Washington Rd.. Upton Park, and put into a van.


Offline e15boy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: A voice from 1880s Stratford
« Reply #14 on: 05 November, 2010, 01:31:03 PM »
I do remember playing football over the flats when there were cows over there, they stopped the games on many occasions and left a few presents for anyone attempting a sliding tackle! not too nostalgic about that, nor is my mum who washed my kit......

N